Can Mens Suits be compared to the Hijab?
Twilight asked:
In the business world, certainly at most management levels, men are pretty much mandated to wear a suit and tie in many parts of the world.
In the business world, certainly at most management levels, men are pretty much mandated to wear a suit and tie in many parts of the world.
What are the reasons for this?
Are the demands placed around uniformity of male appearance as restrictive and stultifying to personal expression and freedom as some argue the Hijab is in the Middle East?
Might one extend the argument that capitalism is the religion of the OECD, and the business suit is much a mandatory way of dressing as the Hijab?
How far would such an argument hold water?
What do you think of the comparison?
Are suits a symbol of male oppression?
Are football helmets a symbol of male oppression?
It’s the uniform of the occupation, not of the society. I’m a male, I’m not wearing a suit right now, and no one would look at me oddly if I went out in public in what I’m currently wearing. In fact, people would be much more likely to look at me oddly if I went out in a suit, given that I’m not in a formal office environment right now.
No suits can’t be compared to the hijab because suits are meant to make a man look more attractive and powerful. They don’t diminish a man at all.
Eoghan, that tie is a phallic symbol, isn’t it…a symbol of our masculine power? Well it could be anyway! I always have the top button undone on my shirt so if it really is a kind of collar and leash then I can slip out of it with ease.
Yes I think so. The tie, what does that symbolise?
Keypointist, what about the collar and leash?
Kind of says here is your limited power but don’t forget your place.
You want to know what the freaking difference is here?
If you loosen your tie, or opt to take off your suit jacket, or, i dunno, decide to readjust your socks, you aren’t stoned or raped. also, if you opt to go for a casual look on friday, no one tells you that you are tempting the men-folk and should get your suited-up ass back in the kitchen and make some g*d-d@mned dinner.
It’s not “oppression” if the group “oppressed” itself. Men are the ones who started making men wear suits, and since men are still the ones who are mostly in power, it’s largely up to men to lift that “oppression”.
While I understand and sympathize that suits are restrictive and uncomfortable and that it’s unfair to make men wear them, it’s really not a fair comparison with the hijabs that Muslim women have to wear. That restriction was PUSHED on women by MEN. Suits were pushed onto men by…men. Furthermore, the kind of men who pushed suits onto other men weren’t hypocrites, unlike the Muslim men who put the hijab in place. The men who force suits onto other men also wear suits themselves.
Also, a man isn’t going to be killed or beaten if he doesn’t wear a suit…at worst he’ll be fired. A woman who goes out in public without appropriate dress in some countries could face brutal consequences.
Furthermore, if men are being oppressed by being made to wear suits, then so are women. Women’s business clothes are just as uncomfortable as men’s, plus we are expected to spend all that time putting on make-up and doing our hair, and we are generally expected to wear heels, which are extremely uncomfortable. I suppose a woman COULD go to work sans makeup, sans nice hairstyle, and sans heels…but do you think she’d ever get promoted?
Anyway, I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. Men can end men’s obligation to wear suits if they want to. Muslim women can’t end their obligation to wear hijabs.
ETA:
Colonel Reb > Men’s suits might be a type of oppression, depending on how you define oppression. But, it’s a whole different order of oppression than the things Muslim women have to wear and why they have to wear them and everything that goes with it culturally. It’s like the difference between cutting off someone’s finger or cutting off someone’s arm…it’s similar in a way but a person who had their arm cut off would be justifiably insulted if a person who had their finger cut off tried to compare themselves to them.
And frankly, I’d much rather have the standards of men’s dress than the standards I have to deal with. Try walking around in heels, hose, and putting makeup on every damn day. I realize suits aren’t comfortable especially in the heat but men have got the better end of the deal overall. Their attire is simple and relatively hassle-free, compared to women’s.
In a way, I guess. However, it’s not nearly on the same level. You won’t lose your life if you decide not to wear a suit, just your job if it requires it.
On another note, this is one area where women (at least in Western countries) have much more freedom than men. If it’s hot, women can wear skirts or dresses and short sleeve tops. Sometimes they can even wear sleeveless shirts. Men in many jobs are stuck in their pants and long sleeves and often jackets and have to suffer through it. If it’s cold, everyone can wear pants (usually).
Rebel F- I didn’t make that rule, so if I am forced to wear something like that I could almost call it oppression. Well, oppression is taking it too far, but it is almost the same thing. If I work at a job where suits are required, I can’t just decide not to wear them if I want to keep my job.
Please for the love of God don’t complain about businesswear, women. You come around here in August and see if you would rather wear your clothes or men’s typical businesswear. If you’d rather go with long sleeves and pants, then you can complain. Nobody with any sense would though.
Rebel F- I’ve never heard of a job that required women to wear makeup or heels. Women choose to wear them. Many jobs won’t let men in the door if they so much as don’t have a tie on.
And if you notice, I did say that the main issues in this question aren’t equal.
CAustin is right. Suits can be compared to a uniform. People are not required to wear them when they are not working.
It looks professional. Women are required to look professional too, they just enjoy fashion enough to have more variety. Maybe you figure something out for men if you feel they are lacking in that department.
No. A man chooses a suit. And if he fails to wear one, nobody stones him to death or throws acid in his face.
I suppose so. Anything is possible. People managed to compare Barack Obama to the Antichrist, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, and Louis Farrakhan even though they have nothing in common.
can men be punished by not covering parts of their body with the suit?
On one level, that is in context of the oppression of everyone in some way by the social and cultural structures of our lives, yes it could be seen as a form of oppression.
On another level, the more everyday one which incorporates theory but doesn’t necessarily accommodate it, suits are probably more equivalent to a uniform.
Something, that is, that people who choose to align themselves with a certain type of organisation wear to fit in, honour or show allegiance wear.
However, I don’t think it’s any coincidence that ‘liberationist’ theories and a trend to casualisation in many sectors of the workforce (western) have coincided in time.
There is an apparent point of comparison with the hijab. *Theoretically* both suits and hijab are worn as a matter of personal choice in order to externally show an internal allegiance to a belief system. In practice, however, both are *culturally* required to show allegiance to a wider mores, and refusal to wear the garment send a message of non-acceptance or refusal to ‘fit in’.
As others have pointed out, refusal to wear suits is rarely met with imprisonment or physical penalty, but it can mean being refused promotions or access to power in the workplace because the non-wearer is seen as not ‘appropriate’.
Cheers